What'sUpWithThatWatts, et al.

This is both my personal learning project and my contribution in the struggle to confront the ongoing Republican/ libertarian assault on rational science and constructive learning, as manifested in their malicious strategic Attacks on Science ~ A collection of articles, scientific resources, plus my own essays and indepth critique of various presentations from unidirectional-skeptics ~ Hopefully a resource for the busy, yet discerning, student who's concerned about the health of our Earth

Showing posts with label GreatClimateDebate. Show all posts

Thursday, April 2, 2015

#2 Fear of Debate - CC/Steele Landscapesandcycles Debate

A virtual debate with Jim Steele based on his interview at Heartland Institute:

Heartland Daily Podcast | Jim Steele | January 27, 2015

Research Fellow H. Sterling Burnett (for the National Center for Policy Analysis) interviews Jim Steele, ecologist, director emeritus of the Sierra Nevada field campus of San Francisco State University

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Steele: "And we trust the scientific theory because it been fairly tested by others - the theory must out perform all alternate explanations, eliminate confounding factors plus lively debate. But, what I was finding was the scientific process was being defiled when scientists refused to debate in public. ... and any attempt to prevent that debate, in our schools, in the media, in peer reviewed science, it's only denigrating the scientific process. ... And I think those public debates would help create real climate literacy ..."

Well then Mr. Steele, let's have our Great Global Warming Science Debate. I will accept these responses as your opening round. I'll offer my rebuttals, evidence and questions.

Let's see if Mr. Steele lives up to his own boisterous challenge, I agree to share his response without editing any of his words in a stand alone post, one per each installment, should he be game.

In this second installment I'm going to jump to the end of the interview because Mr. Steele made a grand speech about the need for debate and I think his words establish the legitimacy of taking on Mr. Steel in this public debate.

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Heartland: Jim, we got a short time left, what would be the most important single point you'd like our listeners to take away from this conversation.

Steele: Oh boy, hard to make one. The first what I would suggest is the public keep the motto of the older scientific institutions of the world, that Isaac Newton once presided over. The motto was Nullius in verba, "take no one's word for it"

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Your translation is too simplistic, here's how some better minds have described it:

... Popper and his fellow author ended their letter by saying. As the founders of the Royal Society of London put it in 1663: Nullius in verba –

there is nothing in words. It is facts we seek.

https://blogs.otago.ac.nz/emxphi/2012/02/nullius-verba-nihil-verbis-sapere-aude/

That's quite different from your siren call to reject what you can't prove for yourself, or what you don't like.

Mr. Steele, can you explain how someone with a partial homespun understanding convinces themself that they are smarter than actual active experts in an area of study. Isn't the devil in the details and doesn't more knowledge lead to better understanding and better understanding lead to sounder judgements?

Mr. Steele, what about that other famous scientific motto that fits into this debate:
Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out."
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Steele: - science is process and scientific theories must be tested and must be debated,

#1 Mtn warming? - CC/Steele Landscapesandcycles Debate

http://blog.heartland.org/2015/01/heartland-daily-podcast-jim-steele-an-environmentalists-journey-to-climate-skepticism/

A virtual debate with Jim Steele based on his interview at Heartland Institute:

Jim Steele, Heartland Daily Podcast - January 27, 2015

Research Fellow H. Sterling Burnett (for the National Center for Policy Analysis) interviews Jim Steele, ecologist, director emeritus of the Sierra Nevada field campus of San Francisco State University

______________________________________________

Steele: "And we trust the scientific theory because it been fairly tested by others - the theory must out perform all alternate explanations, eliminate confounding factors plus lively debate. But, what I was finding was the scientific process was being defiled when scientists refused to debate in public. ... and any attempt to prevent that debate, in our schools, in the media, in peer reviewed science, it's only denigrating the scientific process. ... And I think those public debates would help create real climate literacy ..."

Well then OK Mr. Steele, let's have our Great Global Warming Science Debate. I will accept these responses as your opening round. I'll offer my rebuttals along with evidence and questions.

Let's see if you live up to your own challenge, I agree to share your response without editing any of your words in a stand alone post. This first installment looks at your introduction and your pet theory about rising CO2 not impacting Sierra Nevada temperatures.

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Heartland Burnett: Jim, Thanks for being with us today. If you would, tell us about your background.

Subscribe to: Posts (Atom)

RECOMMENDED WEBSITES

{edited 12/11/2014}

I know there are too many typos, what can I say, eyes aren't what they were, I get rushed, and always did have a thing with transposing…{well, I also hated high school "english" classes... bad call that one.}. Doing the best I can with what I got. Embarrassing though it is, it's better than doing nothing. Besides, it's the issues and reasoning that we should be worrying about.

Though I'm in my own little world here, I'm also constantly learning and evolving and do get occasional feedback and when I reread stuff and find errors or omissions or garbage, I fix it. If it's major I'll acknowledge it with an 'edited' note, minor stuff I don't bother.

~ ~ ~

I hardly keep track of Anthony's latest antics (besides, with Sou on the job why bother - can't beat her insights). It's just me over here and I have more important things to do with my precious hours - still now that Anthony's luster has been wearing thin he's put his energy into discovering and honing new fresh faces to carry on the public show of the Republican/Libertarian strategic attack on science.

He seems to have transitioned into a ring-leader, perhaps mentor/coach would be better, producer? At least that's how Mr. Steele and his antics of the past year has gotten me to think about it. So in that regard this blog remains about WUWT's brand of thinking and logic and my struggle to understand the anatomy of the fraud they've perpetrated against mankind. {December 2014}

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ok, now some recommended websites:

This blog was started in April 2013 and is written by an actual scientist so it has a refreshingly serious objective air to it, plus he does a good clear job of explaining complex issues.

And Then There's Physics.
~ ~ ~

Sou has some of the best {readability and detailed} examinations of Watt's antics I've seen - and she does have fun with certain characters.

She continues be the best at keeping up with Mr. Watts' and pals and their many deceptions.

The recent dirty tricks and attacks she is enduring are acknowledgment of how good she is at it.

http://blog.hotwhopper.com

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Ben has been documenting Anthony's misdeeds longer than the rest of us.

http://wottsupwiththat.com

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Tamino, an acknowledged statistical/mathematical expert of the highest order, at Open Mind also does an excellent job of holding Anthony’s feet to the fire with clearly explained facts and math. Check it out:
http://tamino.wordpress.com
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And of course, there is the excellent, most up to date internet depository of climate studies and information for the non-expert public.

http://SkepticalScience.com

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Then there's RealClimate.org the scientist's commentary site. Run by working climate scientists intended to help the interested public and journalists sort through the complexities of the climatology. They provide "quick response to developing stories and provide the context" that is too often missing from public media's depiction. {But, you better be serious and have some real science education/understanding under your belt if you want to keep up.}

http://realclimate.org

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I remember back in da day, good websites/blogs were few and far between. But over the past years that's been changing to the point that it's impossible to keep up with them all. Here's an incomplete, and long overdue addition to my above list: