Showing posts with label E.M. Debate. Show all posts
Showing posts with label E.M. Debate. Show all posts

Monday, January 2, 2017

#5 Debating Republican Disconnect From Climate Science - Model Uncertainty

CC: I compliment E.M. for making the effort to explain himself and open himself up to critique.  That said, after reading his more detailed arguments, I don’t think I misunderstood at all.  I rather suspect E.M. isn’t aware of the memes he’s passing along like a destructive virus.

He has offered me the opportunity to describe the many games Republicans play with themselves in order to avoid facing our planet’s geophysical realities, for this opportunity I am grateful.
  
This will need to become a series if I’m going to do E.M.’s list justice.  For instance, the first paragraph offers me an opportunity to focus on the Republican PR machine’s unhinged dismissal of climate models and their accuracy.
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E.M. writes:  I’m going to start this post by pointing out that you are taking the substance of my thoughts completely incorrectly. I put this on myself, as my thoughts were quickly written in a comment section and not articulated nearly as clearly as they could have been. 

My original statement came out poorly, and the questions I posed were intended not to critique the science of AGW, but to point out the limitations that arise from scientific modeling, easily the hardest task any research team is faced with.
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CC: No doubt climate models are among the most difficult and exacting challenges climate scientists undertake.  

But I wonder, Why not begin this topic with a review of all that climate models have been nailing with amazing precision?  What is the point of laser focusing on model uncertainties that deal with fine details?  Why do Republicans ignore the fundamental well understood facts?  
Being obsessed with all you don't know, does not enable learning!

E.M., are you willing to consider all the things climate models have been getting correct?
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‘Climate models are unproven’–Actually, GCM’s have many confirmed successes under their belts
By Coby Beck on Nov 20, 2006


In 1988, James Hansen of NASA GISS fame predicted [PDF] that temperature would climb over the next 12 years, with a possible brief episode of cooling in the event of a large volcanic eruption. He made this prediction in a landmark paper and before a Senate hearing, which marked the official “coming out” to the general public of anthropogenic global warming. 

Twelve years later, he was proven remarkably correct, requiring adjustment only for the timing difference between the simulated future volcanic eruption and the actual eruption of Mount Pinatubo.

And let’s face it, every year of increasing global mean temperature is one more year of success for the climate models. The acceleration of the rise is also playing out as predicted, though to be fair, decades will need to pass before such confirmation is inarguable.

Putting global surface temperatures aside, there are some other significant model predictions made and confirmed:

models predict that surface warming should be accompanied by cooling of the stratosphere, and this has indeed been observed;

models have long predicted warming of the lower, mid, and upper troposphere, even while satellite readings seemed to disagree — but it turns out the satellite analysis was full of errors and on correction, this warming has been observed;

models predict warming of ocean surface waters, as is now observed;

models predict an energy imbalance between incoming sunlight and outgoing infrared radiation, which has been detected;

models predict sharp and short-lived cooling of a few tenths of a degree in the event of large volcanic eruptions, and Mount Pinatubo confirmed this;

models predict an amplification of warming trends in the Arctic region, and this is indeed happening;

and finally, to get back to where we started, models predict continuing and accelerating warming of the surface, and so far they are correct. …

Sunday, January 1, 2017

#4 Debating Republican Disconnect From - Climate Science History

A good way to continue this debate is to first take a moment to review the milestones of Climate Science achievements.  This will offer a more realistic portrait than E.M.’s assessment:  “Climate science (in the scope of science) is relatively new”  The list starts with Joseph Fourier discovering the greenhouse effect in 1824 and was compiled by Dr. Spencer Weart the retired Director of the Center for History of Physics of the American Institute of Physics.  

After the list I will return to the above sentence and its related paragraphs.
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The History of Modern Climate Science
Second edition (revised and updated 2008)
The history of climate science goes back to the early 1900's. This section contains a chronological listing of relevant climate science discoveries and events related to anthropogenic global warming. The information here was compiled by Spencer Weart the retired Director of the Center for History of Physics of the American Institute of Physics.

The Short History:
1824 - Joseph Fourier discovered the greenhouse effect.
1859 - John Tyndall discovered that H2O and CO2 absorb infrared confirming the Fourier greenhouse effect.
1896 - Svante Arrhenius proposed human CO2 emissions would prevent earth from entering next ice age (challenged 1906).
1950’s Guy Callendar found H2O and CO2 did not overlap all spectra bands, therefore warming from CO2 expected (countered the 1906 objections against Arrhenius).

#3 E.M. has his say. Debating the Republican Disconnect from Earth's realities.


E.M. has accepted my invitation and here is his guest post taking issue with my commentary.  As agreed I have only added formatting for clarity and tried correcting for the list numbers error that I don't have time to figure out.  I'm hoping E.M. leaves a comment acknowledging that I've left his words untouched.  I will be responding in a following post or two.  Hopefully I'll have the first one finished and posted by this evening.
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E.M. writes:  I’m going to start this post by pointing out that you are taking the substance of my thoughts completely incorrectly. I put this on myself, as my thoughts were quickly written in a comment section and not articulated nearly as clearly as they could have been. My original statement came out poorly, and the questions I posed were intended not to critique the science of AGW, but to point out the limitations that arise from scientific modeling, easily the hardest task any research team is faced with.

I would like to articulate now the ONLY point I was trying to make at any point of this discussion: AGW is real. That is clear. That is obvious. I am making no sort of denial of this fact nor am I being “disingenuous” by stating that we don’t fully understand the way the climate system operates over a long period of time. 

Friday, December 30, 2016

#2 Debating the Republican Disconnect from Earth's realities

My pal returned with another comment, which I gladly share in this second installment, since it affords me an opportunity to list a lot of valuable links that support my claims and that will help inform the curious.   Update, I've received an email from E.M. who requested I refer to him by his initials.  He also offered a four thousand word response that I want to read through before posting it, it'll probably be Saturday night or Sunday before I'll be able to do get it posted.  (12/30/16. 10PM). > It has been posted at #3 E.M. has his say. Debating the Republican Disconnect from Earth's realities.
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E.M. at 11:26pm 12/29/16 writes:  You've got me entirely wrong. Don't warp my broad claim that both sides of this argument are self-interested into labeling me as an "astro-turfer'. 
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Then why are your words so predictable?  It’s like you’re reading off the script.

Oh and you are entirely wrong about the scientists and I suspect you've never actually listened to them discussing their work and results.

I appreciate it's hard for someone trapped within the self-serving Republican mind-set to imagine a community of people dedicated to getting as close to objective truth as humans can hope for.  But, so it is.  This list is incomplete, but it's lecture videos I'm familiar with, I know there are many others out there.

Global Warming: Understanding the Forecast 
Video Lecture Series by David Archer PhD | University of Chicago
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University of California Television (UCTV)