http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence.
I'm no scholar and there's a bit of repetition, but than JNG was rather repetitive himself, still I have some observations I'd like to share, hoping someone better equipped might find something useful in here. JNG's words are complete and unaltered except for a few highlights and appear in Courier font.
The Weather Trap
http://climatechangenationalforum.org/the-weather-trap-by-john-nielsen-gammon/
by John Nielsen-Gammon | January 12, 2014
Climate change is something that’s difficult to experience directly. How many people can say, from personal experience, that it feels like the average temperature in your hometown, let alone the globe, has changed by a degree or two over the past century?
Instead, people tend to try to detect climate change on their own from their experience of individual, usually extreme events. For example, “It never seems to get as cold as it used to.” Communicators have learned this, and have taken to emphasizing individual events as evidence for or against climate change.
I call this “the weather trap”. Weather extremes will always take place, no matter how the climate changes. Some will become more frequent, some less frequent. Many weather extremes are so erratic that a statistically significant increase or decrease might not be detectable for many decades, even though the very real monetary consequences from such changes in extremes start accumulating from the get-go. This means that just about any such attempt to link extreme events with climate change is doomed to logical failure.
Wait a minute! What's doomed to failure?
- - -
"Many weather extremes are so erratic that a statistically significant increase or decrease might not be detectable for many decades, even though the very real monetary consequences from such changes in extremes start accumulating from the get-go."
How does that sentence lead to this sentence?
"This means that just about any such attempt to link extreme events with climate change is doomed to logical failure."
A) Sure, extremes are erratic, your point?Our geophysical experiment has been going on for many decades and trends in various components of our climate system along with increasing extreme weather events are apparent. Why side step that evidence?
For example, suppose that climate change has caused 60% of all temperature records to be record highs and only 40% to be record lows. If Person A points out each record high temperature as evidence of climate change, Person B can point out each record low temperature as evidence of no climate change.
Who wins such an argument? It seems to me that both persons come off badly. A person hearing from Person A and Person B would be likely to notice that record lows still happen almost as frequently as record highs, and if the highs are evidence for climate change and the lows are evidence against, the evidence is almost 50-50. Not very compelling, so Person A loses. Still, record lows certainly don’t mean the globe is getting cooler, so Person B looks stupid too.~ ~ ~
Person A is on more solid footing saying that record highs are becoming more frequent (if the evidence supports such a statement) or are expected to become more frequent (if the evidence supports such a statement.
JNG, no one wins that argument!
What is the purpose of this game of "suppose"?
Why are you ignoring the following evidence?
- - -
NASA Finds 2013 Sustained Long-Term Climate Warming Trend
January 21, 2014 | News Release 14-024
http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/january/nasa-finds-2013-sustained-long-term-climate-warming-trend/
NASA scientists say 2013 tied with 2009 and 2006 for the seventh warmest year since 1880, continuing a long-term trend of rising global temperatures.
With the exception of 1998, the 10 warmest years in the 134-year record all have occurred since 2000, with 2010 and 2005 ranking as the warmest years on record.
- - -
Explaining Explosion of Daily Record Highs Easy as Pie
http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/more-heat-records-compared-to-cold-records/
Andrew Freedman | Published: July 16th, 2012
As the climate has warmed during the past several decades, there has been a growing imbalance between record daily high temperatures in the contiguous U.S. and record daily lows. A study published in 2009 found that rather than a 1-to-1 ratio, as would be expected if the climate were not warming, the ratio has been closer to 2-to-1 in favor of warm temperature records during the past decade (2000-2009). This finding cannot be explained by natural climate variability alone, the study found, and is instead consistent with global warming.
- - -
YouTube --- Global Temp Anomalies, 1880-2012
- - -
Earth Sets 1,400 Year Record for Warm Temperatures
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/04/24/earth-sets-1400-year-record-for-warm-temperatures/
Posted by News Editor in Air/Climate, April 24, 2013
NEW YORK, New York, April 24, 2013 (ENS) – Earth’s climate heated up more between 1971 and 2000 than during any other 30 year period in the last 1,400 years, scientists have found using new regional temperature reconstructions covering all continent. ..."
“This paper tells us what we already knew, except in a better, more comprehensive fashion,” said study co-author Edward Cook, a tree-ring scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, who led the Asia reconstruction.
The study involved the collaboration of researchers in China, India, Pakistan, Russia and the United States, among many other countries, under the auspices of the International Geosphere-Biosphere Programme. ..."
- - -
The 2k Network
http://www.pages-igbp.org/workinggroups/2k-network~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Still, if Person A wishes to relate such a statement to a particular weather event, he or she had better make sure that such events are increasing at that particular location.~ ~ ~
This CCNF is supposed to be about understanding global climate change. All you established is that individual anecdotal experiences are poor guides.
This is why we have educated full-time professionals and scientists who collect huge quantities of information. Why ignore that? Worse why try to paste those weaknesses of the individual onto the current scientific process? What's up with that stream of innuendo?
During the 2012 election there was severe drought in Texas. Some filled Person A’s role by implying that Rick Perry’s state was being directly harmed by climate change. Yet, an analysis we published in 2011 showed that rainfall in Texas had increased by 10%-15% over the past century. At best, global warming contributed to drought intensity by increasing evaporation through warmer temperatures.~ ~ ~
Others disagree.
Global Warming Amplifying Texas Drought, Wildfires, Scientists Say
By Alyson Kenward | Published: September 7th, 2011
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/record-breaking-texas-drought-and-heat/
There’s strong evidence that drought is increasing globally because of climate change, but this does not mean that drought is increasing in every single location because of climate change. According to the latest IPCC report, Texas is one of those locations, but until the observed trend turns around, it’s difficult to be confident about future changes,~ ~ ~
JNG sounds like you are trying to trivialize the situation. Of course there are great variations in local situations. Global warming is still the backdrop to all of this.
Interestingly, I notice that nowhere in any of this do you touch on sea level rise and how that will disrupt our society and our children's lives.
and even more difficult to conclude that those changes have already started.~ ~ ~
That is plain wrong, unless you are demanding absolute proof and I thought every scientist appreciated that proofs are for mathematics and is impossible when it comes to any Earth system.
But does that reality justify ignoring the following evidence?
Climate Change and Food Security
http://www.climatechange-foodsecurity.org/drought.html
- - -
Nov 2012 global warming drought trend - Peter Carter
http://www.slideshare.net/petercarter/nov-2012-global-warming-drought-trend
- - -
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu
- - -
How Are We Changing the Physical Environment of Earth’s Surface?
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12860&page=21~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Does Person B have any sort of solid position to stand on?
~ ~ ~Yes! That solid position begins with:
> a recognition that CO2 is a potent greenhouse gas that along with other greenhouse gases insulate our planet from the deep freeze of space.
> We have injected significant amounts of this insulating gas into our atmosphere.
> That has and will continue warming our planet's climate system.
> That increased heat will transform the climate system that produces our weather patterns.
> Already we are witnessing increasingly dramatic infrastructure destroying events all over the globe with every new season.
> Climatologists have a reasonably detailed understanding of the basic dynamics involved. Climatologists do still have many gaps in their fine-scale understanding of various components of our global heat distribution engine.
> BUT, ALL THOSE GAPS IN KNOWLEDGE ARE TRIVIAL COMPARED TO THE MONSTER IN THE ROOM - that being: The more greenhouse gases humanity injects into our thin atmosphere, the more radical future heat waves and weather upheaval from previous norms will be.
> It's ridiculous to expect exact forecasts for every area before believing these dynamics will transform our lives.
- - -
Climate Change 2013: The Physical Science Basis
https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Perhaps the most defensible position in pointing out things like record lows is to argue or imply that either (a) record lows are bad things, so global warming wouldn’t be all bad, or (b) since record lows keep happening, global warming can’t be having a substantial impact. Statement (a) is true, while statement (b) requires that all the potential impacts of global warming are measurable by the local change in temperature, and is thus more questionable.~ ~ ~
JNG you say it requires local measurable changes to establish . . . establish what?
Establish that climate change is happening, establish that it will be disruptive?
During the current “polar vortex” episode, we’ve seen another trap for Person A: arguing that an extreme event is caused by climate change because a scientific study finds a link between them.~ ~ ~
JNG why are you phrasing this as though there is just a lone study or two linking extreme weather events with climate change?
The influence of temperature on the heights of the tropopause impacting the gradient between the tropics and the arctic
http://agwobserver.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/papers-on-tropopause-height/ - - -
Jennifer Francis - Understanding the Jetstream
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
As a general rule, a large fraction of apparent links detected by correlation are later found to be spurious, and statistical correlation is the main evidence linking the polar vortex excursion to global warming.~ ~ ~
This is more rhetoric and not science. Statistical correlation is not the main evidence, there is also all sorts of geophysical evidence.
- - -
Paul Beckwith: Climate Change Deep Freeze (Polar Vortex, Jet Stream and Sea Ice)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Meanwhile there’s other evidence pointing the other way, and most scientists in the field (such as myself) are waiting for physical proof of a viable mechanism connecting the two before they’ll accept that the correlation is physically based. advocates have trumpeted a connection between severe weather and climate change based on a number of studies that can be counted on one hand (tornadoes have a similarly tenuous link).~ ~ ~
I've asked it before and been ignored, so I'll ask again.
………………………………………………………………………………...
{Well OK, there is the following, though there are issues with just what is being talked about and defining just what the questions are and what we are trying to resolve. . . . }
JNG please offer a list of this "evidence pointing the other way"... don't just assure us that it's there.“It’s an interesting idea, but alternative observational analyses and simulations with climate models have not confirmed the hypothesis, and we do not
view the theoretical arguments underlying it as compelling,” write five preeminent climate scientists (John Wallace, Isaac Held, David Thompson, Kevin Trenberth, and John Walsh) in a recent letter published in Science Magazine.Elizabeth Barnes, an atmospheric scientists from Colorado State University, after an attempt to dismantle Francis’ theory last summer, published a second challenge in January.“…the link between recent Arctic warming and increased Northern Hemisphere blocking is currently not supported by observations,” Barnes’ study concludes. source: WashingtonPost …………………………………………………………………………….
If the connection turns out to be nonexistent, we will again hear Person B saying scientists got another thing wrong about global warming, when in fact the problem is public officials and the media talking up what is at best a tentative connection.~ ~ ~
If you’re a scientist talking about the possible connection between a particular extreme event and climate change, I recommend: (a) wait for a consensus to develop before even mentioning the idea;~ ~ ~
And you keep skirting the bottom-line that the more greenhouse gases we inject into our atmosphere the greater climate conditions will transform away from what our society is adapted to.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
(b) be specific about whether the connection has been observed or is merely expected; and
~ ~ ~
(c) be specific about whether it’s known that the specific location of the particular extreme event is or should be seeing the frequency or severity change. Even following those guidelines, whatever you say will be picked up and translated by Person A and Person B.
YEAR 2011: GLOBAL WEATHER PATTERNS - INFRARED (SSEC-UW-MADISON)
If you’re a member of the general public, you can bet that the truth is a lot more nuanced than what either Person A or Person B is telling you.~ ~ ~
Which is why we have full time dedicated students and professionals and scientists who commit their lives to understanding our planet and it's many components. It's a global scientific community focused on developing as good an image as possible of our planet.
I don't have any concluding remarks, except I'm curious if Nielsen-Gammon will respond, I would very much like to hear his thoughts on the way I perceive his words.
In closing, if you are curious about what this global heat distribution engine is all about, here's the best introduction I've found:
Earth From Space HD 1080p / Nova
3 comments:
For the record I emailed this critique to Professor John Nielsen-Gammon and he sent me a nice note:
"Peter -
Any analysis that detailed deserves a response.
I'm quite busy at the moment, but I should be able to provide detailed comments within the next couple of weeks. Thanks very much for the heads' up.
- John"
I look forward to his response.
Yo John,
I notice this has been getting extra hits lately, John Nielsen-Gammon if you're out there, I'm still waiting for that response you promised me. :- )
Be curious to know what you think this critique:
Colorado Floods - statistical certainty vs geophysical realities
Friday, October 25, 2013
... Predictably folks are asking: Is this related to manmade Global Warming? It's an easy and tough question to answer.
Consider please, our climate system is a global heat distribution engine and our land, atmosphere, and the oceans have indisputably warmed, not only that, our atmosphere's moisture content has been measurably increasing. Given such geophysical realities, it is self-evident that all extreme weather events contain elements of this newly energized climate system. And that much more of the same must be expected.
On the other hand,
it's an exceedingly difficult question to answer if the demand is to know precisely every attribution down to fine detail. Fortunately for interested citizens, scientists have been trying harder to convey their knowledge of those details.
For example, less than two weeks after the flooding, the Western Water Assessment (WWA) together with Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES) released a preliminary report during an hour and a half long videoed web news conference. ... " ~~~
{there's more please check it out}
http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2013/10/colo-floods-statistics-vs-physics.html
Post a Comment